Five before Midnight

This site is dedicated to the continuous oversight of the Riverside(CA)Police Department, which was formerly overseen by the state attorney general. This blog will hopefully play that role being free of City Hall's micromanagement.
"The horror of that moment," the King went on, "I shall never, never forget." "You will though," the Queen said, "if you don't make a memorandum of it." --Lewis Carroll


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Location: RiverCity, Inland Empire

Sunday, November 05, 2006

Lee Deante Brown briefing, revisited

This week, the Community Police Review Commission will receive a briefing on the fatal shooting of Lee Deante Brown by its own investigator, Butch Warnberg. The briefing will only be preliminary because as far as the CPRC is concerned, its investigation is still ongoing.

From the start, this shooting has raised questions among many in the community. In part, this is because the accounts provided by civilian witnesses and the law enforcement officers who were involved contradicted each other, in terms of whether or not Brown had grabbed Officer Terry Ellefson's department issued taser before Ellefson shot him. At least three criminal probes have been initiated into this shooting as well as one administrative review conducted by the police department's internal affairs division.

Here is a written record of the original briefing given by the Riverside Police Department on the Brown shooting last April 12.

CPRC: Lee Deante Brown briefing minutes


CAPT. JIM CANNON: Good evening. On Monday, May..excuse me. On Monday, April 3
rd, 2006, at approximately 1:26 PM, the Riverside Police Department's Communication's Bureau received a call from a citizen saying that a male was acting bizarre in the area of Loma Vista and Ottawa. Over the next 20 minutes, Police Dispatch received additional calls from citizens about the subject's bizarre behavior. Some of his actions the citizens described were yelling and screaming at people, jumping up and down on cars, lying on the street, kissing the pavement, striping off all of his clothes, and exposing himself to the public, which included small children.

The subject, who was later identified as Lee Deante Brown, 31 years old and a resident of Riverside, then walked to University Avenue where it was reported that he intentionally walked into oncoming vehicle traffic, uh, that had to take evasive action to avoid hitting him. Mr. Brown proceeded to the Welcome Inn Motel, located at 1910 University Avenue, where he continued to display his bizarre behavior. Witnesses at the motel advised that Mr. Brown was yelling and screaming, repeatedly pounding on various motel room doors, and lying down in the parking lot.

At approximately 1:52 PM, Officer Paul Stucker was driving by the Welcome Inn Motel when a citizen flagged him down and pointed out Mr. Brown. The citizen told Officer Stucker about Mr. Brown's behavior and stated that he, the citizen, thought that Mr. Brown was "on water," which is a street term for PCP. Officer Stucker had been monitoring his police radio and had heard several of the numerous, uh, radio dispatches involving Officer... Mr. Brown. Officer
Stucker immediately requested additional officers to respond to his location. Upon seeing Officer Stucker, Mr. Brown retreated to an alcove, uh, where Officer Stucker lost sight of him. Officer Stucker then moved to a different location where he could see Mr. Brown.
Officer Stucker gave Mr. Brown numerous commands, but Mr. Brown ignored the commands.

Mr. Brown made some comments to Officer Stucker, saying that he could not hurt him and other comments about Jesus. Mr. Brown then started to advance toward Officer Stucker. At this time, Officer Stucker deployed his Department Taser, which caused Mr. Brown to fall to the ground. Mr. Brown got back to his feet. Officer Stucker deployed the Taser again,
which caused Mr. Brown to fall back to the ground. At this time, it was about 1:55 PM and assisting Officer Terry Ellefson arrived at the motel. Officer Ellefson told Officer Stucker to disable his Taser so he, Officer Ellefson, could safely handcuff Mr. Brown. Officer Ellefson
approached Mr. Brown, who was on the ground. Officer Ellefson was able to place a handcuff on Mr. Brown's left wrist.

As he tried to secure the right wrist, Mr. Brown quickly pushed up from the ground, tossing Officer Ellefson from his back. Mr. Brown was able to get back on his feet.
At this time, Officer Ellefson deployed his Taser at Mr. Brown. The Taser had little effect. At this time, trying to prevent Mr. Brown from standing up, Officer Stucker closed his distance and attempted to apply a contact Taser deployment to Mr. Brown. As he did, Mr. Brown grabbed Officer Stucker's arm.

Immediately, Officer Stucker felt an electrical shock run through both of his arms. Officer Stucker also saw that he had a Taser probe stuck in his left hand. Officer Stucker backed away from Mr. Brown, secured his Taser in his gun belt. Officer...Officer Stucker then drew his expandable baton from his belt. At the same time, Officer Ellefson moved in and contacted Mr. Brown. Officer Ellefson was also attempting to delivera Caser...Taser deployment, contact Taser deployment to Mr. Brown's right shoulder area while he attempted to grab the loose handcuff, which was being swung wildly around by Mr. Brown. Officer Ellefson and Mr. Brown struggled

At this time, both officers saw that Mr. Brown had gained control of Officer Ellefson's Taser and was holding it in his hand. Mr. Brown, who was now in a squatting position, started to stand up and advance toward Officer Ellefson. Fearing for their safety because the power indicator light for the Taser was on, Officer Stucker hit Mr. Brown with his expandable baton, which had no effect. At the same time, Officer Ellefson, who was backing away from the advancing Mr. Brown, discharged two rounds from his duty weapon, striking Mr. Brown with both rounds. The shots caused Mr. Brown to fall to the ground. Mr. Brown was given several commands by the officers, which he ignored. Medical aid was summoned for Mr. Brown,
however, he succumbed to his...succumbed to his wounds at Riverside Community Hospital.

Both officers and police detectives...both officers and police detectives have made several canvases of the area for witnesses and / or possible additional evidence. The witnesses that have been questioned were unaware that Mr. Brown had gained control of the officer's Taser. We are continuing to work very closely with the District Attorney's Office and the Sheriff / Coroner to complete this investigation. Thank you.

DEP. CHIEF DAVE DOMINGUEZ: I apologize. I failed to introduce myself, um, when I made my opening comments. My name is Dave Dominguez. I'm the Deputy Chief of Police and in charge of day-to-day operations of the Police Department. Both Chief Leach and I have been briefed on a daily basis by Captain Cannon and his staff and Chief Leach has asked me to take personal oversight of this investigation. I did spend, uh, several years out in, uh, as the captain in Investigations and are thoroughly familiar with investigating officer-involved incidents. He's asked that I keep him informed as the progress of this investigation and wants it completed as soon as possible.

The City of Riverside and members of the Police Department extend our sincere sympathy to the family of Mr. Brown. As I mentioned earlier, we realize this is a very difficult time for him and his fam...for his family. We also would ask if the investigator assigned comes up with any additional witnesses that we have not found, that information be given to us so we can continue and interview them and complete our investigation. With that, thank you for allowing us this time this evening.

CHAIRMAN LES DAVIDSON: Thank you, Chief, for giving us that briefing and we certainly will keep you informed. And as far as the audience is concerned, I'd like to just say, we realize this is a very, very difficult time for everyone and this commission takes it very seriously and we will be on top of this as quickly as we can possibly get the facts in and
we can assure you of that. We thank you for coming.

Seven months later, upon rereading the minutes about what was said at that briefing, it raises many concerns and questions, about a series of events that transpired within minutes of the arrival of the first officer to the Welcome Inn which ended in Brown's death. Other individuals have been asking questions about it as well.

Some of those include the following.

Why did Officer Stucker engage with Brown before backup arrived?

This is a commonly asked question, especially given that Stucker had been informed by a bystander that Brown was on "water" which Cannon explained in his briefing was slang for PCP. Sometimes individuals on PCP can exhibit violent behavior and resist officers, in part because they are in an altered state and lose their capability to feel or react to painful stimuli. According to the briefing, Stucker had called for backup officers, before he approached Brown, who at that point was lying in the parking lot not harming or threatening anyone. Other witnesses reported that he was fine as long as he was not "bothered" and Chief Russ Leach said at a community meeting last April that in cases like this one, time was on the officers' side. However, this incident was over in mere minutes.

The concern on this issue both in regards to Brown's safety as well as that of Stucker has been raised in terms of addressing the issue of the department's lack of training involving how its officers interact with those who are mentally ill and/or are unable to respond or understand verbal commands issued by police officers. Many law enforcement agencies have created and implemented training for officers through the formation of crisis intervention teams. Others partner their officers with mental health professionals when interacting with mentally ill individuals. The police department currently has no similar program in place but has said publicly that it is working on it.

Where did the probe that struck Officer Stucker in his hand come from?

A representative from the department said last May that they did not know where the probe that hit Stucker in the hand came from. According to the initial briefing by the department, both officers had deployed their taser probes before Stucker felt the electrical shock and saw a probe stuck in his hand. After Ellefson deployed his taser, Stucker then moved in to drive stun Brown with his taser and was then shocked, before discovering the taser probe in his hand. This could cast some doubt on at least the timeline and the order of events leading up to the shooting that was provided at the briefing.

So when during the encounter was Stucker hit by the taser probe and where did it come from? The more probable source, given that only two tasers were present, was that it came from Ellefson's taser because his taser was the last one to have a live cartridge in it. However, no definitive information has been provided at this point. Hopefully, that is one of the questions that will be answered at Warnberg's briefing through information provided by his interviews and/or that provided as part of the department's officer involved death investigation.

What was the source of the electrical shock that ran through Stucker's arms?

This information was relayed in the briefing but remained ambiguous as to the source of the shock which ran through Stucker's arms. The representative appeared to imply that it happened when Brown grabbed Stucker's arm, but that is an unlikely source based on training material provided by the police department.

According to that information and information provided by the Web site run by Taser International, Inc., the shock would have most likely come from a taser probe at the time it had been discharged from a taser. Given that Stucker clearly did not experience the full impact of the taser according to the briefing, it's likely that the other taser probe went elsewhere, possibly hitting Brown which may have been one reason why when Ellefson had fired his taser, it had little effect on Brown's behavior.

How did Brown allegedly "gain control" of Ellefson's taser?

The initial briefing stated that the officers at some point saw that Brown had "gained control" of the taser. No information was provided in the briefing as to whether either officer said that Brown had either grabbed it from Ellefson's hand or had picked it up off the ground if it had been dropped during the alleged struggle between Ellefson and Brown. This alleged struggle took place after Ellefson had moved in on him to attempt to drive stun him with his taser while simultaneously trying to grab a loose handcuff hanging from Brown's arm with his other hand. In fact, there is no information provided in the briefing as to how Brown wound up with the taser in his hand, which is puzzling considering that this aspect of the shooting is probably among the most critical in the case.

Hopefully, the officers' statements and/or other evidence shed more light on this issue.

Why were the simultaneous actions taken by both officers in response to Brown allegedly grabbing Ellefson's taser so different?

According to the briefing, Stucker struck Brown with his baton the same time that Ellefson fired two shots at Brown. Often, when officers deploy less lethal options, there is an officer who provides lethal force as a backup in case the situation escalates beyond what can be handled by those options and places the officers or others in immediate danger of loss of life or serious injury. However, here, you have an officer who used lethal force soon after deploying a less lethal option, his taser.

Hopefully, the statements provided by both officers to department investigators, which will be included in Warnberg's investigative report will shed some light on these issues. If not, the CPRC would have the option of voting to issue subpoena(s) to the involved officers. Given the Riverside Police Officers Association's stance on the CPRC's subpoena process and the fact that several criminal investigations remain ongoing, it is unlikely that either officer would answer any questions asked by the CPRC about the shooting. It is more likely that instead, they would invoke their Fifth Amendment right just as former Officer Tina Banfill Gould did when she was issued a subpoena to appear before the CPRC in 2004 for the Volne Lamont Stokes shooting.

What is the department's policy, procedure and training for handling situations where civilians grab an officer's taser?

There is no specific language in the department's policies and procedures that were released as part of a California Public Records Act request pertaining to this situation. The only mention of it in this training material was how to avoid this situation, not how to handle it if it does happen. The police department's officers undergo much more defensive tactical training and training on less lethal options than officers in most other agencies, according to statements made publicly by the department. It is not clear that this particular situation is covered in any of that training or if this shooting or that of Joseph Darnell Hill on Oct. 19 will have any effect on that.

If Brown had grabbed Ellefson's taser, was he aiming it in their direction at the time he was shot?

This question arose after information was released about the more recent fatal shooting of Hill. Officers alleged in that shooting that Hill had grabbed the taser and was aiming it at an officer at the time he was shot. In Brown's case, there was no specific language in the briefing or any of the press releases about what he was doing with the taser if he had grabbed it from Ellefson. The briefing just stated that he had gained control of it and that the officers feared for their safety because Stucker saw that the power indicator light was on. The location of the power indicator light on the taser will probably define whether or not it was aimed in the officers' direction when Ellefson fired his weapon.

Was the taser a lethal weapon?

According to Taser International, Inc., the taser is a dual use weapon. It can be used to fire two probes connected to over 20 feet of wire from a distance to deliver an electrical shock which can either override the central nervous system of the individual or it can also issue a command to the nervous system to cause all large muscle groups to contract simultaneously, causing the individual to fall on the ground in a fetal position. In order to be used in this fashion, there has to be a live cartridge in the taser at the time of deployment. Both officers deployed their tasers at least once in this manner, according to the briefing.

In contrast, there most likely was a live cartridge in Officer Giovanni Ili's taser when it was allegedly grabbed by Hill in that incident.

The taser can also be used in a drive stun mode for "pain compliance" meaning that it can be pressed against the body and cause severe pain for the duration that the button is pushed. It can not produce the same electrical effect as when used with taser probes. The drive stun mode can only be used when there is not a live cartridge in the taser. Both officers had at least tried to deploy the taser in the drive stun mode which means that neither of the taser had a live cartridge in them at the time Brown allegedly grabbed Ellefson's.

Did Brown have Ellefson's taser in his hand when he was shot?

This is the question that arises most often. Did Brown grab Ellefson's taser and was he holding it when he was shot by Ellefson? The civilian witnesses claimed in their statements that they never saw a taser or what would have been a black and fluorescent yellow object in Brown's hand.

The account provided at the initial briefing states that the officers said that Brown had gained control of it. Forensic tests conducted on the taser for finger prints or DNA traces can only conclusively prove that Brown's DNA or fingerprints are on the taser, if either or both are detected there. A negative test result would neither prove or disprove that Brown had physical contact with Ellefson's taser, because he could have handled it without leaving an adequate DNA sample for testing purposes.

These are just a few of the questions that have arisen that need to be answered through this investigation but it is not clear which ones will be. That is why at this point for many people standing on the outside looking at a process that for the most part remains hidden, it leaves them with as many or more questions than answers as to why Brown lost his life.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

The taser itself is not a deadly weapon. We're not supposed to use it if it could leed to someone falling to their death or if someone is standing or soaked in a flamable substance. Here's the kicker. The taser incapacitate's a person for 5 seconds when there's a good deployment, i.e. both prongs hit the suspect. If the trigger is held down on the X-26, the taser will shock for as long as the trigger is held down. If an Officer is shot with the taser, he won't be able to secure his gun, baton, knife, back-up gun, which are deadly weapons. A suspect could take these weapons off of an officers belt and use them on the officer. If a suspect gains control of my taser, or attempts to gain control, he will be a threat to my life, and I will deal with the threat accordingly so I can go home and kiss my wife.

Personally, I hate the taser. It has often failed me more than helped me. Plus, it's another weapon I have to worry about retaining if I get into a fight. As long as we're carrying taser's, and as long as suspect's try to take them, there will be more OIS's to come. Take the taser's away and we'll have to go back to batoning suspect's repeatedly or be forced to use our guns. It's a win lose situation. Unfortunately there will always be violent criminals that want to fight to the death. They'll fight to the death whether they're on Drugs or mentally ill. If a mentally ill subject is out of control in the streets, there's no one else to deal with them but the police. If the encounter becomes life threatening to the police, the person will die or be seriously injured.

Remember one thing. Officers don't train to lose or die. We're people and we have families just like everyone esle. Officer's have different mind sets and have different threat levels.

Well FiveB4Midnight, I hope I gave you a different perspective on things. I know you'll never completely trust the police or agree with our use of force methods.

Here's some advise for our readers on how not to get shot by the police.

1. Don't sleep in your car visible to the public with a gun in your lap.
2. Don't grap an officer's taser.
3. Don't try and use your car as a weapon or try to escape in your car when an officer is nearby.
4. Don't approach an officer with an edged/blunt/heavy weapon/object.
5. Just comply whether you like it or not. You'll always have your day in court. A dead man tells no tale.

Until next time.

Monday, November 06, 2006 3:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Humm, what came first; the chicken or the egg? Mary, I definitely see all the potential conspiracies your bringing to the forefront. However, if you think some inconsistencies in this type of situation denote lying, which is what it appears your implying, I believe you to be way off base. Let's just remember this; the largest court in our land and state and federal law does not make exemptions for the mentally ill or those who make a personal choice to stimulate themselves with controlled substances (even "water"). As for Ofc. Stucker's decision to encounter the suspect while he was lying on the ground and apparently no "threat" to anyone, who was present besides Ellofson and Stucker to make that decision? If this person was no threat, why was there more than one call to dispatch requesting police because of this suspect? And I would disagree with the statement that time was on the police officer's side. Based on the circumstances leading up to that call, I think it was an excellent time to try to deploy a taser. It's not like this person was barricaded inside of a structure with no potential hostages. He was still in a public place and at any time could have relinquished this prone position on the ground and decided to run back into the streets or accost a citizen. This person could have also attacked Ofc. Stucker not allowing him time to defend himself. As officers, we must not just take into account what it is occurring at the time but must think about past transgressions of the suspect as well as potential threats. Ofc. Stucker and Ofc. Ellofson responded to a scene that you as well as many other people would not have the guts to respond to. I respect your right to state your opinions and question police tactics. Please respect mine and do not edit this blog as you have now enabled yourself the ability to do.


Concerned Citizen

Monday, November 06, 2006 12:31:00 PM  
Blogger Five Before Midnight said...

Dear "Insider" and Man of Many Aliases:

So, where are you boys from?

Have a nice day and don't forget to vote,

Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh Mary, don't worry where we're from. It doesn't concern you who we are. Do you really think that we'll identify ourselves or our departments on this circus act. You know how Internal Affairs are these days. Your website has a lot of readers these days. People find it quite comical when alleged "Cops" poke fun at a local writer. The only thing that does matter is that your name is Mary Shelton, and you live in the Eastside. Good day.

Thursday, November 09, 2006 3:07:00 PM  
Blogger Five Before Midnight said...

Dear Has-no-name-but-writes-short-choppy-sentences:

My, you're fast.

I wrote about the Brown shooting what a few hours ago and you're already here trying to scare me? Oh, we know who you are and where you live, in more coy language. Give me a break.

How pathetic is that?

Either you or your "friends" do not work for law enforcement agencies and never have or your intelligence level is way below the mean for the intelligence level found in any police department to write this kind of crap. I suspect the former is the case, especially considering the caliber of nicknames around here. "One of Riverside's Finest", as if! "Insider", only in your dreams. "Sigmund", unintentionally funny.

Halloween is over. Put that police officer costume back in the closet until next year.

Good day to you too, although it must be difficult for you to see it considering where your head is.

Thursday, November 09, 2006 4:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Institutional racism.

-White Police Administrators ponder means by which to lawfully kill the black while making the killing "look justified".
-White Engineers design “Taser” to torture the black during arrest procedures.
-White Elected Officials fund purchase of Tasers for police use against the black.
-White “Use of Force” experts declare that the Taser is “lethal” when/if the black gains control of Taser or ATTEMPTS TO GAIN CONTROL of Taser.
-White Police Officers bait the black into touching the Taser so that the White Police Officer can terminate the black with the police firearm.

What's next??? Taser's on EVERY POLICE OFFICER'S BELT???

I rest my case.

Saturday, November 11, 2006 3:32:00 AM  
Blogger Five Before Midnight said...

What's next??? Taser's on EVERY POLICE OFFICER'S BELT???

Well, yes I believe that is the department's goal, to equip all of its officers in its field operations division with X26 tasers at some point. Tasers save lives, they say.

Not really much of an "insider" are you?

Btw, thank you for finally resting your case after all this time. It still makes no sense, it's not really original, but it is well within your abilities to formulate. You get an A for effort and a C for execution.

Have a nice day,

Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

blogger wrote,

A for effort and a C for "execution".

So you agree with my assertion?

not much of an "insider"??? I dont get it.

case rester.

Monday, November 13, 2006 2:00:00 AM  
Blogger Five Before Midnight said...

Dear "(Truly)Anonymous":

I'm not surprised that you don't. You have a below passing score at that if your last post is an example of your best work product here. I believe it's not.

Agreement? That is a bit of a leap on your part. I was surprised to see you present your thesis given your prior posts here purporting to be an "insider" under much more creative aliases.

I guess not. Are you even out of high school?

Have a nice day,

Monday, November 13, 2006 8:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

laugh all you want. My conclusion has merit.

"In 2004, Cincinnati police used Tasers in 629 incidents."

"As of 2005, Cincinnati's population was 331,310"

"Cincinnati OH Demographics. ... Black or African American, 142176, 42.9%"

Consider the population of Riverside, the black population percentage, the number of Taser uses of force against the black, and the number of times the black was killed by police firearms after the black gained control, or attempted to gain control of the taser.

In 2004, Cincinnati PD deployed a taser 629 times. Riverside PD, in 2006, will deploy a taser perhaps 24 times, or twice per month? (maybe even at a rate less than that)

Cincinnati PD deploys a taser at roughly 26 times the rate of the Riverside PD, but have yet to kill a suspect during a physical struggle over possession of a taser.

I'm not as think as you dumb i am.

case rester

Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:33:00 AM  
Blogger Five Before Midnight said...

Dear "case rester" etal:

Who said you were dumb? I guess the comment about you still being in high school made you feel a bit insecure. I'm so sorry about that.

I just do not understand why you are playing dumb after your previous posts here, including ones that decried any claims of racism in the Riverside Police Department. Your problem, was that you didn't even know how to spell racism correctly. And I do believe that word is still on the SAT study list, so you better crack the books.

Consequently, your sudden concern for the plight of the "black" just seems a bit abrupt and insincere on your part. It does go to show that once again, the torture and killing of Black men is fodder for jokes in some circles including yours. Let's just hope that your only connection with any police department let alone the Riverside Police Department is wishful thinking. Even the department's attempts to create new cultural sensitivity training is just a wasted effort in correcting this type of behavior. Don't they cover these topics in high school?

Still, you are not much of an insider as you don't seem to be able to access even the most basic information. That quick pay raise that you predicted would come last July to aid the department's retention rate did not come to pass. In fact, the opposite took place.

Actually, I believe taser use is and has been higher than twice monthly despite the fact that only about 57% of officers in the field division are equipped with tasers. Its use in the department is also increasing, along with the carotid restraint. I'm surprised you didn't know this as this is basic information that was included in a report made public last March.

Thank you for the information on Cincinnati's statistics. If true, that departent will be added to the growing list.

Have a nice day,

Tuesday, November 14, 2006 8:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I have read alot of old posts on your blog. You were obsessed with the spelling of racism, so i threw that in for fun. It drives you nuts.

I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. I admit that. Laughing at my education level is your right. Some of us went to public school and appreciate the education that we received. You were lucky that your parents provided you with a superior education and you took advantage of the opportunity.

In my life, I have learned that education level is not a "for sure" path to success in life. I have met many people who are educated but have nothing to show for it in terms of income earning ability, net worth and quality of life. Not to mention retirement savings, long term health care and basic self sufficiency.

In a nutshell, you can be well educated and still end up an underachieving, dependent, loser in life. (I like the word Parasite, but if I use that word you might think that Im somebody else because they like the word parasite.)

case rester

Tuesday, November 14, 2006 1:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


you got sidetracked by my education level and missed my entire point.

-white police officer has possession of taser.
-white police officer engages in physical confrontation with the black.
-white police officer alleges the black gains control, or attempts to gain control of the taser.
-white police officer uses firearm to terminate the black.

and yet you believe that police use of the taser is a positive thing for the black? positive for the community?

How can you not see the taser as yet another tool used by the police to "rubberstamp" the justified execution of the black?

case rester

Tuesday, November 14, 2006 1:25:00 PM  
Blogger Five Before Midnight said...

Dear Anonymous:

No, actually you just spelled it wrong because you didn't know how to spell it. No worries, but oh the irony especially since you also apparently believed it was Black people who had ruined life in the South for Whites.

I apologize for allowing you to believe that I was making fun of you for only having a high school education. If I were doing so, I would only have been returning the favor, because you treated me the same way several months ago while you were posting under a different alias.

However, I was not laughing at you or your educational level at all. Actually, it was my belief that you were currently in high school not that you had actually graduated that I was expressing, just for clarification. I think you know that.

As for your thesis, again, it contradicts your prior posts here and again, it just shows that you are among those who believe that joking about the torture and deaths of African-American men is funny or suitable simply for the purpose of raising faux points only because you find it both entertaining and funny to do so.

Wasn't it you or one of your friends who just complained the other day that I had argued for taking your X26 tasers away from you? If I have you confused with someone else, I apologize. None of you have the mojo, well except for several of you all for brief periods of time, to use your real names here and no offense, but you're all starting to sound alike.

Have a nice day,

Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:23:00 PM  

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